24 Aug
2011
24 Aug
'11
3:42 p.m.
I know it's a lost cause to expect the Census Bureau to see reason and dump
AFF2, which sometime this fall will become their only portal for census and
ACS data. But anyone who believes a data searching and downloading product
has to require tutorials and special training, or has to be clunky,
needlessly complex, visually confusing, and counter-intuitive should visit
the BEA's new web site, and try downloading economic data for his/her local
area. The steps are quick, the icons are clear and intuitive, and you can
get to some pretty complex stuff in a series of steps that leaves you
feeling smart.
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I always come away from AFF2 either
feeling dumb, or like a shoplifter who actually got away with something
useful, despite the risks I had to take and the danger of complete failure.
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine and others to provide tips
and data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 - thanks!
Jonathan Lupton AICP
Research Planner
Metroplan
Little Rock AR
501-372-3300
25 Aug
25 Aug
7:03 a.m.
I totally agree with you about AFF2.
Bob Schwartz, Data Administrator Phone: (412) 391-5590 Ext
336
Southwestern Pennsylvania Commission FAX: (412) 391-9160
Regional Enterprise Tower E-mail:
schwartz(a)spcregion.org
425 Sixth Avenue, Suite 2500 SPC web address:
www.spcregion.org
Pittsburgh, PA 15219-1852 My normal hours:
Mon-Fri 7:15-3:30
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net
[mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf Of Jonathan Lupton
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:42 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] BEA data vs AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know it's a lost cause to expect the Census Bureau to see reason and
dump AFF2, which sometime this fall will become their only portal for
census and ACS data. But anyone who believes a data searching and
downloading product has to require tutorials and special training, or
has to be clunky, needlessly complex, visually confusing, and
counter-intuitive should visit the BEA's new web site, and try
downloading economic data for his/her local area. The steps are quick,
the icons are clear and intuitive, and you can get to some pretty
complex stuff in a series of steps that leaves you feeling smart.
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I always come away from AFF2
either feeling dumb, or like a shoplifter who actually got away with
something useful, despite the risks I had to take and the danger of
complete failure.
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine and others to provide
tips and data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 - thanks!
Jonathan Lupton AICP
Research Planner
Metroplan
Little Rock AR
501-372-3300
9 a.m.
Jonathan,
Thank you for your post. Can't agree with you more. AFF2 is a total disaster;
it's just incomprehensible how a product that bad survived through years (?) of
internal review-total abdication of managerial responsibility on the part of the
bureau's execs, in my opinion. No one has the courage to admit a mistake, cut the
losses, and move on in the right direction.
Dmitry Messen
H-GAC
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf
Of Jonathan Lupton
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:42 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] BEA data vs AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know it's a lost cause to expect the Census Bureau to see reason and dump AFF2,
which sometime this fall will become their only portal for census and ACS data. But anyone
who believes a data searching and downloading product has to require tutorials and special
training, or has to be clunky, needlessly complex, visually confusing, and
counter-intuitive should visit the BEA's new web site, and try downloading economic
data for his/her local area. The steps are quick, the icons are clear and intuitive, and
you can get to some pretty complex stuff in a series of steps that leaves you feeling
smart.
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I always come away from AFF2 either feeling dumb,
or like a shoplifter who actually got away with something useful, despite the risks I had
to take and the danger of complete failure.
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine and others to provide tips and
data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 - thanks!
Jonathan Lupton AICP
Research Planner
Metroplan
Little Rock AR
501-372-3300
9:22 a.m.
Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with AFF2 and actually finds it pretty
easy to use and navigate??
Justin Brunetti
Transportation Planner
CT Dept. of Transportation
Bureau of Policy and Planning
Systems Modeling and Forecasting
Census/Modeling Section, Room 2330
2800 Berlin Turnpike Newington, CT 06131
Email: justin.brunetti(a)ct.gov
Tel: 860-594-2028
Fax: 860-594-2056
Hours: 7:00-3:30
*This message is intended for the sole use of the individual or entity to which it is
addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from
disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended addressee, nor authorized to
receive for the intended addressee, you are hereby notified that you may not use, copy,
disclose or distribute to anyone the message or any information contained in the message.
If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply
email and delete the message.
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf
Of Messen, Dmitry
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 9:00 AM
To: 'ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net'
Subject: RE: [CTPP] BEA data vs AFF2 and its well-known faults
Jonathan,
Thank you for your post. Can't agree with you more. AFF2 is a total disaster;
it's just incomprehensible how a product that bad survived through years (?) of
internal review-total abdication of managerial responsibility on the part of the
bureau's execs, in my opinion. No one has the courage to admit a mistake, cut the
losses, and move on in the right direction.
Dmitry Messen
H-GAC
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf
Of Jonathan Lupton
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:42 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] BEA data vs AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know it's a lost cause to expect the Census Bureau to see reason and dump AFF2,
which sometime this fall will become their only portal for census and ACS data. But anyone
who believes a data searching and downloading product has to require tutorials and special
training, or has to be clunky, needlessly complex, visually confusing, and
counter-intuitive should visit the BEA's new web site, and try downloading economic
data for his/her local area. The steps are quick, the icons are clear and intuitive, and
you can get to some pretty complex stuff in a series of steps that leaves you feeling
smart.
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I always come away from AFF2 either feeling dumb,
or like a shoplifter who actually got away with something useful, despite the risks I had
to take and the danger of complete failure.
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine and others to provide tips and
data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 - thanks!
Jonathan Lupton AICP
Research Planner
Metroplan
Little Rock AR
501-372-3300
10:09 a.m.
The real problem is that it didn't have any user
review. I begged to be allowed to beta test, was
promised, but it never happened. People inside
the Census Bureau don't have a clue as to how
users actually obtain and use data.
At 09:00 AM 8/25/2011, you wrote:
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="_000_F45F10D16CF4424197F0BA5310BD52C85F4F36F6EBntex03_"
Jonathan,
Thank you for your post. Cant agree with you
more. AFF2 is a total disaster; its just
incomprehensible how a product that bad survived
through years (?) of internal reviewtotal
abdication of managerial responsibility on the
part of the bureaus execs, in my opinion. No
one has the courage to admit a mistake, cut the
losses, and move on in the right direction.
Dmitry Messen
H-GAC
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net
[mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf Of Jonathan Lupton
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:42 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] BEA data vs AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know its a lost cause to expect the Census
Bureau to see reason and dump AFF2, which
sometime this fall will become their only portal
for census and ACS data. But anyone who believes
a data searching and downloading product has to
require tutorials and special training, or has
to be clunky, needlessly complex, visually
confusing, and counter-intuitive should visit
the BEAs new web site, and try downloading
economic data for his/her local area. The steps
are quick, the icons are clear and intuitive,
and you can get to some pretty complex stuff in
a series of steps that leaves you feeling smart.
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I
always come away from AFF2 either feeling dumb,
or like a shoplifter who actually got away with
something useful, despite the risks I had to
take and the danger of complete failure.
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine
and others to provide tips and data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 thanks!
Jonathan Lupton AICP
Research Planner
Metroplan
Little Rock AR
501-372-3300
--_000_F45F10D16CF4424197F0BA5310BD52C85F4F36F6EBntex03_--
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text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
ctpp-news mailing list ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
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--===============1307992593==--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patricia C. (Patty) Becker 248/354-6520
APB Associates/SEMCC FAX 248/354-6645
28300 Franklin Road Home 248/355-2428
Southfield, MI 48034 pbecker(a)umich.edu
9:29 a.m.
As one who spends much time on statistical sites around the world, I can
tell you that no nation has managed to produce anything so user unfriendly.
It is even more productive to use some sites in foreign languages one
doesn't understand (thanks to Google translate). Many sites have less
information, but having less information is not much of a disadvantage when
a wealth of information is behind a needlessy complicated data wall that
prevents its ready access.
Given the interest in cutting back government statistical programs (we
surely need to cut back many things to get off the road to Greece), AFF
could be an important tool of those who do not understand the importance of
widely available data.
Yes, thank you Elaine and thank you to sites like that at U of Missouri.
On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 7:42 PM, Jonathan Lupton <jlupton(a)metroplan.org>wrote:
I know it’s a lost cause to expect the Census Bureau
to see reason and dump
AFF2, which sometime this fall will become their only portal for census and
ACS data. But anyone who believes a data searching and downloading product
has to require tutorials and special training, or has to be clunky,
needlessly complex, visually confusing, and counter-intuitive should visit
the BEA’s new web site, and try downloading economic data for his/her local
area. The steps are quick, the icons are clear and intuitive, and you can
get to some pretty complex stuff in a series of steps that leaves you
feeling smart. ****
** **
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I always come away from AFF2
either feeling dumb, or like a shoplifter who actually got away with
something useful, despite the risks I had to take and the danger of complete
failure.****
** **
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine and others to provide tips
and data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 – thanks!****
** **
Jonathan Lupton AICP****
Research Planner****
Metroplan****
Little Rock AR****
501-372-3300****
** **
** **
_______________________________________________
ctpp-news mailing list
ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
http://www.chrispy.net/mailman/listinfo/ctpp-news
--
--
Wendell Cox
Demographia | Wendell Cox Consultancy - St. Louis Missouri-Illinois
metropolitan region
Visiting Professor, Conservatoire National des Arts et Metiers, Paris
+1.618 632 8507
www.demographia.com | www.publicpurpose.com | www.rentalcartours.net
Books & Publications
WAR ON THE DREAM: How Anti-Sprawl Policy Threatens the Quality of Life
http://www.demographia.com/wod1.pdf
7th ANNUAL DEMOGRAPHIA INTERNATIONAL HOUSING AFFORDABILITY SURVEY (
http://www.demographia.com/dhi.pdf)
THE WAL-MART REVOLUTION: How Big-Box Stores Benefit Consumers, Workers, and
the Economy
By Richard Vedder & Wendell Cox
5:36 p.m.
New subject: [CTPP] Re: AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know you're frustrated with AFF2. I no longer recommend it to anyone.
So if you need Census 2010 summary tabulations, here are best online alternatives to AFF2
(my picks):
* http://mcdc.missouri.edu/pub/data/sf12010/Datasets.html if you need many tables
for a large number of locations (for example, all Census Tracts in Minnesota). User
interface looks complex the first time - but you'll see it's easy - and allows
output in SAS, or flat-file or other formats.
* http://nhgis.org if you need a few tables (a few topics) for a large number of
locations + you want ArcGIS shapefile too.
* http://census.ire.org/data/bulkdata.html if you just need one table (1 at a
time) for a large number of locations. This is the quickest to navigate. The drawback is:
this site does not provide descriptive column headings/labels. You'll need SF1
documentation to decipher and re-label the column headings it provides.
________________________
Todd Graham
Principal Forecaster and Project Manager
Metropolitan Council
390 Robert Street North
Saint Paul, MN 55101
ph: 651/602-1322
email: todd.graham(a)metc.state.mn.us<mailto:todd.graham(a)metc.state.mn.us>
in: www.linkedin.com/in/toddgraham
web: http://www.metrocouncil.org/data/
________________________
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf
Of Jonathan Lupton
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:42 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] BEA data vs AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know it's a lost cause to expect the Census Bureau to see reason and dump AFF2,
which sometime this fall will become their only portal for census and ACS data. But anyone
who believes a data searching and downloading product has to require tutorials and special
training, or has to be clunky, needlessly complex, visually confusing, and
counter-intuitive should visit the BEA's new web site, and try downloading economic
data for his/her local area. The steps are quick, the icons are clear and intuitive, and
you can get to some pretty complex stuff in a series of steps that leaves you feeling
smart.
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I always come away from AFF2 either feeling dumb,
or like a shoplifter who actually got away with something useful, despite the risks I had
to take and the danger of complete failure.
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine and others to provide tips and
data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 - thanks!
Jonathan Lupton AICP
Research Planner
Metroplan
Little Rock AR
501-372-3300
26 Aug
26 Aug
4:23 p.m.
New subject: [CTPP] RE: AFF2 and its well-known faults
Census.ire.org only allows single-table downloads via bulk download (geo within geo), but
its table browser allows download of many tables at once for one or a few geos.
The table browser also shows descriptive column headings via a toggle to show or hide the
table browser. Descriptive labels aren't included in the download file.
Two other key features:
-- It lets you look at a table for multiple levels of geography, so you can inspect
side-by-side (for instance) a table for 4 tracts, 2 cities, a metro and a state. Then you
can download just those geos for that table.
-- Finally, both bulk download and table browser automatically link equivalent Census
2000 SF1 and Census 2010 SF1 tables for most geos and calculates the change and % change.
We designed it for journalists, so data mavens should enjoy its simplicity. We welcome
your feedback. Code is posted: https://github.com/ireapps/census
Paul Overberg
USA TODAY
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf
Of Graham, Todd
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2011 5:36 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] Re: AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know you're frustrated with AFF2. I no longer recommend it to anyone.
So if you need Census 2010 summary tabulations, here are best online alternatives to AFF2
(my picks):
* http://mcdc.missouri.edu/pub/data/sf12010/Datasets.html if you need many tables
for a large number of locations (for example, all Census Tracts in Minnesota). User
interface looks complex the first time - but you'll see it's easy - and allows
output in SAS, or flat-file or other formats.
* http://nhgis.org if you need a few tables (a few topics) for a large number of
locations + you want ArcGIS shapefile too.
* http://census.ire.org/data/bulkdata.html if you just need one table (1 at a
time) for a large number of locations. This is the quickest to navigate. The drawback is:
this site does not provide descriptive column headings/labels. You'll need SF1
documentation to decipher and re-label the column headings it provides.
________________________
Todd Graham
Principal Forecaster and Project Manager
Metropolitan Council
390 Robert Street North
Saint Paul, MN 55101
ph: 651/602-1322
email: todd.graham(a)metc.state.mn.us<mailto:todd.graham(a)metc.state.mn.us>
in: www.linkedin.com/in/toddgraham
web: http://www.metrocouncil.org/data/
________________________
From: ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net [mailto:ctpp-news-bounces(a)chrispy.net] On Behalf
Of Jonathan Lupton
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:42 PM
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: [CTPP] BEA data vs AFF2 and its well-known faults
I know it's a lost cause to expect the Census Bureau to see reason and dump AFF2,
which sometime this fall will become their only portal for census and ACS data. But anyone
who believes a data searching and downloading product has to require tutorials and special
training, or has to be clunky, needlessly complex, visually confusing, and
counter-intuitive should visit the BEA's new web site, and try downloading economic
data for his/her local area. The steps are quick, the icons are clear and intuitive, and
you can get to some pretty complex stuff in a series of steps that leaves you feeling
smart.
By comparison, speaking only for myself, I always come away from AFF2 either feeling dumb,
or like a shoplifter who actually got away with something useful, despite the risks I had
to take and the danger of complete failure.
However, I do appreciate the efforts of Elaine and others to provide tips and
data-downloading alternatives to AFF2 - thanks!
Jonathan Lupton AICP
Research Planner
Metroplan
Little Rock AR
501-372-3300
5090
days inactive
5092
days old
ctpp@listserv.transportation.org
7 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Bob Schwartz -
Brunetti -
Graham -
Jonathan Lupton -
Messen -
Overberg -
Patty Becker -
wendell cox