Alan - But you've already given us your answer: "stay and commute", right? So what questions are you asking of the data that have not already been answered? Inquiring minds want to know. :)
Stu Sirota
Parsons Brinckerhoff
Baltimore, Maryland
-----Original Message-----
From: ALAN E. PISARSKI [mailto:pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 3:37 PM
To: Sirota, Stuart; ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
DOCTRINE RAISES ITS HEAD BEFORE THE ANSWERS ARE IN. THANKYOU. Alan Pisarski
----- Original Message -----
From: Sirota, <mailto:SirotaS(a)pbworld.com> Stuart
To: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
The 2000 CTPP simply confirms what any 6 year old buckled into the back seat of a minivan can plainly see: Americans are being compelled to spend ever-greater amounts of time in cars, over longer distances. The reasons for this unsustainable trend, which are the resulting nexus of land use policy, transportation policy, societal and economic forces, have been well documented. Now that the data is in, what will we as planners do with it?:
a) Continue to recommend projects and policies that perpetuate the status quo trendline?
b) Develop tools that provide alternative choices?
You decide.
Stu Sirota
Parsons Brinckerhoff
Baltimore, Maryland
-----Original Message-----
From: William Knight [mailto:wknight(a)ccmpo.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 12:02 PM
To: 'ALAN E. PISARSKI'; 'Sam Granato'
Cc: 'ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net'
Subject: RE: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
This all is a familiar phenomenon in the Burlington, VT area. Housing in the county is sky rocketing in costs and people are moving out to adjacent and even further away. Commutes are getting longer.
William L Knight, Executive Director
Chittenden County Metropolitan Planning Organization
30 Kimball Avenue
South Burlington, VT 05403
(802) 660-4071, Ext. 228
(802) 660-4079 Fax
wknight(a)ccmpo.orgwww.ccmpo.org
-----Original Message-----
From: ALAN E. PISARSKI [mailto:pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Sam Granato
Cc: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
All good thoughts. We saw this in New Hampshire also - the family home that is rich in sentiment but cant get much on the market vs a suburban house you cant afford. Answer: Stay and commute. Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam Granato <mailto:Sam.Granato(a)dot.state.oh.us>
To: ALAN <mailto:pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com> E. PISARSKI
Cc: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
I had already noted for Wheeling model development that commuting to counties in Pennsylvania doubled from 1990 to 2000! But to address the general point, seems there's two trends at work - in stagnant regional economies, workers try to avoid moving when by choice or force they take that more distant job (in addition to all the "rural community" issues, what kind of price would you get for your house in a stagnant or declining economy?). And in booming regions, the cost of buying a new house becomes the problem. Lack of space and "gov'mint regulation" are the usually-cited culprits, but maybe we've also gotten to the point where NIMBYism and the "growth controls" it leads to are having an impact in the imbalance between housing supply and demand.
Sam Granato
Ohio DOT, Office of Technical Services
1980 W. Broad Street, Columbus, OH 43223
Phone: 614-644-6796, Fax: 614-752-8646
"The solution to congestion is to put private business in charge of building roads and the government in charge of building cars." Will Rogers
"ALAN E. PISARSKI" <pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com>
Sent by: owner-ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
06/03/03 08:07 AM
To: "Hartgen, David" <dthartge(a)email.uncc.edu>, <ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
cc: <Elaine.Murakami(a)fhwa.dot.gov>
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
Dave: This has seen rather dramatic change nationally. Of the 13.2 million
new commuters more than half were intercounty, 6.7 meg; raising the share of
intercounty from to 23.9% to 26.7%. Some states have seen explosions in
this area. Ohio, Va. etc. A lot of this can be an accidental product of
geog. (East vs West States) but there is something else going on -- much of
it I believe is rural workers heading to the metro suburbs for work. Note W
Va had largest increase in trav times - that wasn't congestion in
Wheeling.Also think of the car plants in the south. I recall someone saying
that all but 3 of the 104 counties in Ky sent workers to the Georgetown car
plant. I intend to spend a lot of time on this in Commuting in America
III. I will look forward to your work - and steal from it shamelessly.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hartgen, David" <dthartge(a)email.uncc.edu>
To: <ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
Cc: <Elaine.Murakami(a)fhwa.dot.gov>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
> Colleagues, Elaine Murakami at FHWA has suggested I contact you. I
> am working on a county-to-county work flow analysis for North Carolina's
100
> counties, and am interested to know if anyone is/has done something
similar
> for cities or for other states or US regions. The issues we are addressing
> are:
> 1. Has inter-county commuting increased as a share of trips, VMT, and fuel
> use since 1990?
> 2. What percent of state travel and fuel use is in intra- and inter-county
> commuting? Is it a declining or increasing share?
> My student (Ellen Cervera) has completed the first phase of her
> work, for 2000, and is beginning the 1990 analysis. Her problem involves
> computing, for all NC co-to-co flows (100*100), the % of vehicle trips
> (adjusted for carpooling), the % of VMT (using a distance matrix and 20 %
> road circuituity), and % of fuel use (using weighted fuel rates from Hy
> Statistics VM-1) that is inter-co versus intra-co; also these %'s as a
> function of total state use, and changes in these %'s from 1990 to 2000.
The
> effects are hypothesized to be compensating: that is, trips are getting
> longer and the % of travel that is inter-county is increasing, but fuel
use
> is declining per mile, so the magnitude of fuel use in inter-county may be
> stable or declining over time. My modeling system is TransDAD
> (http://www.caliper.com)
> Anyone working on a similar problem with the 2000 county-to-county
> data? We would appreciate receiving materials at this location or at fax
> 704-687-3442.
>
> Thanks
> Prof. David T. Hartgen
> UNC Charlotte
> 704-687-4308
Does anyone have a SPSS syntax file (program) that reads the 2000 Census
PUMS ASCII data file? I would appreciate a copy.
Thanks
Greg Lipton
King County Transit
Seattle WA
206 263-4673
This all is a familiar phenomenon in the Burlington, VT area. Housing in
the county is sky rocketing in costs and people are moving out to adjacent
and even further away. Commutes are getting longer.
William L Knight, Executive Director
Chittenden County Metropolitan Planning Organization
30 Kimball Avenue
South Burlington, VT 05403
(802) 660-4071, Ext. 228
(802) 660-4079 Fax
wknight(a)ccmpo.orgwww.ccmpo.org
-----Original Message-----
From: ALAN E. PISARSKI [mailto:pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:50 AM
To: Sam Granato
Cc: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
All good thoughts. We saw this in New Hampshire also - the family home that
is rich in sentiment but cant get much on the market vs a suburban house you
cant afford. Answer: Stay and commute. Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam <mailto:Sam.Granato(a)dot.state.oh.us> Granato
To: ALAN E. <mailto:pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com> PISARSKI
Cc: ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net <mailto:ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
I had already noted for Wheeling model development that commuting to
counties in Pennsylvania doubled from 1990 to 2000! But to address the
general point, seems there's two trends at work - in stagnant regional
economies, workers try to avoid moving when by choice or force they take
that more distant job (in addition to all the "rural community" issues, what
kind of price would you get for your house in a stagnant or declining
economy?). And in booming regions, the cost of buying a new house becomes
the problem. Lack of space and "gov'mint regulation" are the usually-cited
culprits, but maybe we've also gotten to the point where NIMBYism and the
"growth controls" it leads to are having an impact in the imbalance between
housing supply and demand.
Sam Granato
Ohio DOT, Office of Technical Services
1980 W. Broad Street, Columbus, OH 43223
Phone: 614-644-6796, Fax: 614-752-8646
"The solution to congestion is to put private business in charge of building
roads and the government in charge of building cars." Will Rogers
"ALAN E. PISARSKI" <pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com>
Sent by: owner-ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
06/03/03 08:07 AM
To: "Hartgen, David" <dthartge(a)email.uncc.edu>,
<ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
cc: <Elaine.Murakami(a)fhwa.dot.gov>
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data,
2000
Dave: This has seen rather dramatic change nationally. Of the 13.2 million
new commuters more than half were intercounty, 6.7 meg; raising the share of
intercounty from to 23.9% to 26.7%. Some states have seen explosions in
this area. Ohio, Va. etc. A lot of this can be an accidental product of
geog. (East vs West States) but there is something else going on -- much of
it I believe is rural workers heading to the metro suburbs for work. Note W
Va had largest increase in trav times - that wasn't congestion in
Wheeling.Also think of the car plants in the south. I recall someone saying
that all but 3 of the 104 counties in Ky sent workers to the Georgetown car
plant. I intend to spend a lot of time on this in Commuting in America
III. I will look forward to your work - and steal from it shamelessly.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hartgen, David" <dthartge(a)email.uncc.edu>
To: <ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
Cc: <Elaine.Murakami(a)fhwa.dot.gov>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
> Colleagues, Elaine Murakami at FHWA has suggested I contact you. I
> am working on a county-to-county work flow analysis for North Carolina's
100
> counties, and am interested to know if anyone is/has done something
similar
> for cities or for other states or US regions. The issues we are addressing
> are:
> 1. Has inter-county commuting increased as a share of trips, VMT, and fuel
> use since 1990?
> 2. What percent of state travel and fuel use is in intra- and inter-county
> commuting? Is it a declining or increasing share?
> My student (Ellen Cervera) has completed the first phase of her
> work, for 2000, and is beginning the 1990 analysis. Her problem involves
> computing, for all NC co-to-co flows (100*100), the % of vehicle trips
> (adjusted for carpooling), the % of VMT (using a distance matrix and 20 %
> road circuituity), and % of fuel use (using weighted fuel rates from Hy
> Statistics VM-1) that is inter-co versus intra-co; also these %'s as a
> function of total state use, and changes in these %'s from 1990 to 2000.
The
> effects are hypothesized to be compensating: that is, trips are getting
> longer and the % of travel that is inter-county is increasing, but fuel
use
> is declining per mile, so the magnitude of fuel use in inter-county may be
> stable or declining over time. My modeling system is TransDAD
> (http://www.caliper.com)
> Anyone working on a similar problem with the 2000 county-to-county
> data? We would appreciate receiving materials at this location or at fax
> 704-687-3442.
>
> Thanks
> Prof. David T. Hartgen
> UNC Charlotte
> 704-687-4308
I had already noted for Wheeling model development that commuting to
counties in Pennsylvania doubled from 1990 to 2000! But to address the
general point, seems there's two trends at work - in stagnant regional
economies, workers try to avoid moving when by choice or force they take
that more distant job (in addition to all the "rural community" issues,
what kind of price would you get for your house in a stagnant or declining
economy?). And in booming regions, the cost of buying a new house becomes
the problem. Lack of space and "gov'mint regulation" are the
usually-cited culprits, but maybe we've also gotten to the point where
NIMBYism and the "growth controls" it leads to are having an impact in the
imbalance between housing supply and demand.
Sam Granato
Ohio DOT, Office of Technical Services
1980 W. Broad Street, Columbus, OH 43223
Phone: 614-644-6796, Fax: 614-752-8646
"The solution to congestion is to put private business in charge of
building roads and the government in charge of building cars." Will
Rogers
"ALAN E. PISARSKI" <pisarski(a)ix.netcom.com>
Sent by: owner-ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net
06/03/03 08:07 AM
To: "Hartgen, David" <dthartge(a)email.uncc.edu>, <ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
cc: <Elaine.Murakami(a)fhwa.dot.gov>
Subject: Re: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
Dave: This has seen rather dramatic change nationally. Of the 13.2
million
new commuters more than half were intercounty, 6.7 meg; raising the share
of
intercounty from to 23.9% to 26.7%. Some states have seen explosions in
this area. Ohio, Va. etc. A lot of this can be an accidental product of
geog. (East vs West States) but there is something else going on -- much
of
it I believe is rural workers heading to the metro suburbs for work. Note
W
Va had largest increase in trav times - that wasn't congestion in
Wheeling.Also think of the car plants in the south. I recall someone
saying
that all but 3 of the 104 counties in Ky sent workers to the Georgetown
car
plant. I intend to spend a lot of time on this in Commuting in America
III. I will look forward to your work - and steal from it shamelessly.
Alan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hartgen, David" <dthartge(a)email.uncc.edu>
To: <ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
Cc: <Elaine.Murakami(a)fhwa.dot.gov>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:39 PM
Subject: [CTPP] RE: County-to-county worker flow data, 2000
> Colleagues, Elaine Murakami at FHWA has suggested I contact you. I
> am working on a county-to-county work flow analysis for North Carolina's
100
> counties, and am interested to know if anyone is/has done something
similar
> for cities or for other states or US regions. The issues we are
addressing
> are:
> 1. Has inter-county commuting increased as a share of trips, VMT, and
fuel
> use since 1990?
> 2. What percent of state travel and fuel use is in intra- and
inter-county
> commuting? Is it a declining or increasing share?
> My student (Ellen Cervera) has completed the first phase of her
> work, for 2000, and is beginning the 1990 analysis. Her problem involves
> computing, for all NC co-to-co flows (100*100), the % of vehicle trips
> (adjusted for carpooling), the % of VMT (using a distance matrix and 20
%
> road circuituity), and % of fuel use (using weighted fuel rates from Hy
> Statistics VM-1) that is inter-co versus intra-co; also these %'s as a
> function of total state use, and changes in these %'s from 1990 to 2000.
The
> effects are hypothesized to be compensating: that is, trips are getting
> longer and the % of travel that is inter-county is increasing, but fuel
use
> is declining per mile, so the magnitude of fuel use in inter-county may
be
> stable or declining over time. My modeling system is TransDAD
> (http://www.caliper.com)
> Anyone working on a similar problem with the 2000 county-to-county
> data? We would appreciate receiving materials at this location or at fax
> 704-687-3442.
>
> Thanks
> Prof. David T. Hartgen
> UNC Charlotte
> 704-687-4308
Colleagues, Elaine Murakami at FHWA has suggested I contact you. I
am working on a county-to-county work flow analysis for North Carolina's 100
counties, and am interested to know if anyone is/has done something similar
for cities or for other states or US regions. The issues we are addressing
are:
1. Has inter-county commuting increased as a share of trips, VMT, and fuel
use since 1990?
2. What percent of state travel and fuel use is in intra- and inter-county
commuting? Is it a declining or increasing share?
My student (Ellen Cervera) has completed the first phase of her
work, for 2000, and is beginning the 1990 analysis. Her problem involves
computing, for all NC co-to-co flows (100*100), the % of vehicle trips
(adjusted for carpooling), the % of VMT (using a distance matrix and 20 %
road circuituity), and % of fuel use (using weighted fuel rates from Hy
Statistics VM-1) that is inter-co versus intra-co; also these %'s as a
function of total state use, and changes in these %'s from 1990 to 2000. The
effects are hypothesized to be compensating: that is, trips are getting
longer and the % of travel that is inter-county is increasing, but fuel use
is declining per mile, so the magnitude of fuel use in inter-county may be
stable or declining over time. My modeling system is TransDAD
(http://www.caliper.com)
Anyone working on a similar problem with the 2000 county-to-county
data? We would appreciate receiving materials at this location or at fax
704-687-3442.
Thanks
Prof. David T. Hartgen
UNC Charlotte
704-687-4308
Any word on when (if?) the county subdivision to county subdivision worker flows are going to be released for the northeastern states? They might keep the hungry hordes here at bay until the CTPP part 3 data is released.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Paul Reim
Chief Planner, Data Resources / GIS
Central Transportation Planning Staff
Boston Metropolitan Planning Organization
10 Park Plaza, Suite 2150
Boston, MA 02116
voice: (617) 973-8132
fax: (617) 973-8855
To follow-on to David's email about worker flows, Cube 3.1 and Viper/TP+ 3.1
directly develop and display county-to-county flows for 1970, 1980, 1990 and
2000. Further information on these products is available on
www.citilabs.com <http://www.citilabs.com/>
Michael Clarke
i am passing this along to the list. i believe that is where michael
meant it to go.
when posting to the list the list serve address is
"ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net". someone along the way slipped the word "owner-"
in front of the address which sends the message only to me.
also, when responding to the entire list, please make sure to "reply
all" to make sure your response goes to the list and not just the person
who stimulated the response.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 2000 Worker Flows
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:01:11 -0700
From: "Michael Clarke" <mclarke(a)citilabs.com>
To: <owner-ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
To follow-on to Davids email about worker flows, Cube 3.1 and Viper 3.1
directly develop and display county-to-county flows for 1970, 1980, 1990
and 2000. Further information on these products is available on
www.citilabs.com
Michael Clarke
i am passing this along to the list. i believe that is where frank meant
it to go.
when posting to the list the list serve address is
"ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net". someone along the way slipped the word "owner-"
in front of the address which sends the message only to me.
also, when responding to the entire list, please make sure to "reply
all" to make sure your response goes to the list and not just the person
who stimulated the response.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: CTPP Census Journey to Work Question
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:42:16 -0400
From: Fred Frank <fred.frank(a)knoxtrans.org>
Organization: Knoxville-Knox County MPC
To: "'owner-ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net'" <owner-ctpp-news(a)chrispy.net>
Hello,
The Census data for journey to work is a one-way figure. The Knoxville
MSA average for a home to work trip is 23.2 minutes. It would also be
representative for a work to home trip, so you could double that figure
to get the total time a person would spend traveling to and from work-
46.4 minutes.
Hope this helps.
Fred Frank
Transportation Planner
Knoxville Regional Transportation Planning Organization
Suite 403, City-County Building
400 Main Street
Knoxville, TN 37923
(865) 215-4001
www.knoxtrans.org
Dan,
I understand that the trip home often takes longer because there's more
congestion in the pm (because there are more non-work trips being made
during pm rush hour than during am rush hour).
Rob
Robert B. Case, PE, PTOE
Principal Transportation Engineer
Hampton Roads Planning District Commission
723 Woodlake Dr., Chesapeake, Va. 23320
voice:757-420-8300; fax:757-523-4881
rcase(a)hrpdc.org
>>> Estersohn Dan <Dan.Estersohn(a)arbitron.com> 05/28/03 11:38AM >>>
I need to get more information on the Journey to Work questions. Can
you
help me understand why only the one-way home-to-work trip is asked for?
Why
not the return trip? Is it correct to double the Census travel times
to
generalize "the average worker spends 51 minutes a day commuting?" I
would
appreciate your input.
The questions arise because we posted the Census data on our web site.
We
aggregated the data to our geographies and to a more manageable number
of
categories. As you can imagine; radio stations, outdoor advertising
companies, and their ad agency and advertiser clients are very
interested in
commuting info. If you are interested, you can see the application at
<http://www.arbitron.com/radio_stations/transportation.htm>
http://www.arbitron.com/radio_stations/transportation.htm.
Dan Estersohn
Senior Demographer
Arbitron, Inc
